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Gonzo
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Carpal Tunnel
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Dead Dead Dead Pt. Deux
#188469 - 11/24/08 01:11 PM
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Has Dead Tuesday just come a day early, or has Monday joined Tuesday as an official OMC Dead Day?
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aa
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Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 05/04/06
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Quote:
Has Dead Tuesday just come a day early, or has Monday joined Tuesday as an official OMC Dead Day?
it's a bit annoying
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aa
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Carpal Tunnel
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maybe somebody can tell me how i am supposed to feel about the bailout plans and stimulus packages.
my comprehension of macro-economics is limited, so use small words.
the liberal part of my brain has concluded this: bush wants to give money to wall street??? what kinda of socialist bs is this!!! crooks, crooks are getting my money.
obama wants to give money to the auto industry and wall street. well....we certainly would not want things to get worse. we have to do something right?
the rest of my brain wishes it understood what is going on and what the ramifications are for bailing or not bailing.
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Gonzo
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One of the oldest rules of politics is that you usually have to make deals with the devil. We just haven't had very many people who knew who to deal... everyone thinks they're smarter than the devil, but time and again it's proven they're not.
Imo, bailing out Citibank is more important than bailing out the automakers - in the short term. But that's it... no more.
I would any and every govt. bailout a one-strike deal. The auto industry got a freebie with Chrysler 20 years ago, but look at what good that did. The merger with Daimler Benz didn't help Chrysler, it nearly ruined Daimler.
I also think telling Detroit to prove they could handle a bailout before they get it is smart. Detroit should begin by cutting 75% of its fundamentally worthless middle managers.
What's interesting to me is what's happening in Germany. Tiny Porsche now has a controlling interest in Volkswagen. Porsche is microscopic in terms of production, but it's ENORMOUS in terms of profitability... why? Because it knows it's customers, and most importantly, NEVER underestimates them or insults their intelligence... things that Detroit has been doing since the end of WWII, and which is why Japanese cars caught up to and surpassed Detroit in the 1970s.
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Foodlover
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Reged: 04/21/03
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Loc: Milwaukee native
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Can you guys keep it down; I'm trying work. 
I think dead Tuesday came this week on Sunday so let's make Tuesday pop!
btw, I think the Big 3 can't be trusted with my money so no $ for you. I think AIG obtained my money and bush et all gave it to them all for somewhat untrue reasons so I think we need to get as much back as possible and prosecute them all for fraud. They seem to be using my money to buy other businesses and not to loosen the flow of credit.:D
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WHAT?
More troops, more money needed in Afghanistan?
I'm getting a feeling of deja vu. 
btw, why is Dick Cheney still walking the streets?
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Gonzo
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Unfortunately, when/if you let the Big 3 fail, thousands of smaller to mid-sized companies (some undeserving to) will go down with them. The domino/ripple efect, whatever you call it, would be colossal and irreparable, and worst of all, exactly the wrong people will be hurt.
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jake53005
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veteran
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Quote:
The auto industry got a freebie with Chrysler 20 years ago, but look at what good that did. The merger with Daimler Benz didn't help Chrysler, it nearly ruined Daimler.
I also think telling Detroit to prove they could handle a bailout before they get it is smart. Detroit should begin by cutting 75% of its fundamentally worthless middle managers.
29 years ago they bailed out chrysler and it provided jobs for 250,000 workers for 29 years. These people were able to support their families and pay taxes over those years. Then as now it is a LOAN not a handout. Chrysler had to provide a plan that showed concessions by both management and the union. The union almost sank the deal because they said they have never given concessions and never would. Well they finally broke and gave in. The govt gave them the money to be paid back in 7 years. Chrysler paid it back in 3. The govt also collected $25 million in fees from them and $311 million in stock sales on top of the $1.2 billion it borrowed.
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hnDjLT5yZaM33trEWOZrZENjm0wgD94KO4EG0
Quote:
Detroit should begin by cutting 75% of its fundamentally worthless middle managers.
Management and engineering etc. were cut a several years ago already, long before the union workers were cut. Yes, detroit did not concentrate on offering low cost, fuel efficient cars because of the low profit margins on them. It is more difficult for them to make a profit on them because of the benefits they have to pay the current and retired union workers. It puts them at a $2,000 per car disadvantage over the japenese right off the start. GM pays out more to retired workers every month than it pays for steel to make the cars. They have come around and have actually been working on new vehicles for several years now. It takes 7 years to bring a new car on line but starting this next year already and for the next several years they will be bringing out many new fuel efficient cars. GM will have 20 new fuel efficient models next year and ford will have 9. These will include hybrids and electric vehicles. Their quality has also improved greatly over the last several years. JD power says that ford has equalled honda and toyota in quality. But for many that switched to japanese in the past 20years it is hard to break the perception of poor quality when it comes to domestic vehicles and they are not willing to give them a chance. Detroit knows this and is concentrating on the younger generations that are growing up with high quality domestic vehicles to carry them in the future.
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"Life's tough. It's even tougher if you're stupid." - John Wayne
"When you subsidize poverty and failure, you get more of both." - James Dale Davidson, National Taxpayers Union
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Foodlover
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Any company that has its CEO living in Seattle and commuting to Detroit via private jet has a lot of balls to blame things on the unions. If anyone should be blamed perhaps it's ourselves for not demanding universal health coverage which is one of the things seperating Japan from Detroit. Toyota's CEO makes $1 million a year compared to $28 for Ford and let's not forget the retirement packages past CEO's and other worthless upper management have gotten. Toyota has its American workers do charitable deeds at full pay during slow times so they value their workers. You think the guy on the Hummer line didn't know that he'd live to see its demise? The blue collar worker has much more intelligence than given credit for. I think its too late for the Big 3 to get it together and I'm sick of throwing good money after bad. Chrysler had Lee Iacocca and a game plan (the K car) in its past, these bozo's have not a clue. 
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WHAT?
More troops, more money needed in Afghanistan?
I'm getting a feeling of deja vu.
btw, why is Dick Cheney still walking the streets?
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Chuck™
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People like to blame unions for everything, it's always the workers fault not the greedy management. The foreign companies that build here in America also have contracts with the UAW.
http://www.uaw.org/uawmade/auto/2009/index.cfm
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Chuck™
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Carpal Tunnel
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Start with some cuts here first, THEN ask the workers for concessions.
http://www.companypay.com/executive/compensation/general-motors-corp.asp?yr=2008
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